I’m sure the analogy will come up at some point.

Jacob,

Glad to read you didn’t take the web designer job. You can do better than what they offered.

Jacob Cass’s last blog post..The Best Graphic Design Articles from 34 Top Design Blogs as Chosen By The Authors Themselves

Feel free to use the analogy whenever needed :)

LaurenMarie - Creative Curio’s last blog post..Mastering Photoshop Masks: Quick Mask

Glad you enjoyed the read.

As for your question about the graphic design ‘hobbyists’, the alternative, which I already mentioned, is pro-bono work (for the public good). There are hundreds of non-profit organisations who would love for a designer to approach them with under-the-market-rate proposals. That way, they receive real-world projects, yet are working one-to-one with the client, and are guaranteed feedback (vital when developing design skills).

Lauren,

The majority of responses to these posts are always insightful, I agree. Interesting take on Jacob’s situation, that it could’ve been a trick to see who stands up for themselves. I doubt that’s the real case, but it’d be great if it was.

Excellent point about hiring a lawyer, and not getting a refund if the case is lost. I like that one a lot. ;) Thanks for adding to the discussion!

I really liked the article you linked to about the legality of logo design contests on The Logo Factor. An interesting concept I’d never thought of before.

I usually use a lawyer in place of a plumber when comparing the services a designer offers to another professional that you wouldn’t ask to do spec work. I don’t know of any lawyers who take on a case to prove they can win! But how does the client know they are getting a good lawyer? I’ve never hired one myself, but really, how would you know? How can you be sure they would know the loopholes and precidense necessary to win your case? Hiring a lawyer is surely more expensive than hiring a designer, but do people question how well the lawyer knows what he’s doing? If he loses your case, you’d better believe you’re not getting a refund!

Re: entrepreneurs wanting free work. My husband has recently been involved with a startup business and the way the owner got around not having money up front is that he offered us 10% ownership of the company (which he’s now up to 15%). Now we have a stake in its success, which motivates us to work hard and statisfies us that we are not really working for free, but for future success. I liked that idea. And it’s been a great learning experience.

And communicatrix’s gif (thanks for sharing, btw!!) reminded me of 10 Lies Told by Clients.

LaurenMarie - Creative Curio’s last blog post..Mastering Photoshop Masks: Quick Mask

And Vivien, great point about how the world economy comes into play in all of this (esp. with the design competitions). I remember we have discussed this before on David’s blog but can’t find where that is…

thanks, and again, very informative article and many good comments already made.

I also read that recently (a report on how seeing Apple’s logo makes you more creative than IBM’s). It provoked a few thoughts, and would make for an interesting blog post. A little off-topic here, but thanks all the same.

Kristian,

As Cat mentions, are logo design contest sites even legal? Do you still think they’re a good idea?

Cat,

It’d be great if Steve’s article brought about some action, although I’m not holding my breath.

Vivien,

There always seems to be an interesting follow-up discussion on spec work articles. I agree how there’ll always be too radically different ends of the spectrum – those prepared to pay hundreds of thousands, and those wanting something for nothing.

Phillip,

The ‘kill fee’ you mention should already be factored into most contracts, although I’d steer clear of using that term. I’d opt for a deposit, or initial payment. ;)

Tim,

Thanks for posting your first comment, and for returning here for more than one visit. All this talk of sandwiches is making me hungry.

Jen,

You re-invigorated the spec work debate here with your logo upload. Good of you to stop by and leave your thoughts.

I am a prime example of ” NO!SPEC IGNORANCE”, just participating in these competitions because of my love of design and the potential “win status”.

I think that many or most designers (both new & experienced) that participate in these competitions are
unaware of how they are being used and abused, not thinking past the “this is fun” and the “oh well, it
didn’t win, but it’s a great portfolio piece” mentality.

I was unaware of the NO!SPEC coalition. I saw another persons logosauce profile who supported this,
and only after reading about it did I fully understand that as a professional, I shouldn’t be wasting my
time on these sites that were greatly undervaluing my profession.

There will always be the hobbyists and the designer wanabees participating on these sites, but if the
educated professionals would just STOP, and recognize their own worth, there might be less of
these sites popping up from the depths of SPEC!HELL.

**make me a sandwich contest**

Logo design contests are just a scam to take advantage of designers who don’t know any better.

Have you ever heard of a paint my house contest or a make me a sandwich contest.

I want everybody to make me a sandwich and if I choose your sandwich as the best tasting you win! I’ll give you a prize that has no value plus I’ll tell everybody I know what a good sandwich maker you are and because everybody trusts me they will pay you to make sandwiches for them.

If you give it away for free it has no value.
_____________________

PS: Nice blog David, I’ve read it on occasion in the past but have never felt compelled to comment until now. I loathe spec.

I am on the dev side, but I truly understand the design-side pain. My previous professional lives includes freelance writing. I often worked with publications that offered me a ‘kill fee’ that covered my expenses if an article or paper did not pass muster.

We need to start promoting this concept more in the design field. If a company thinks enough to ask you to submit, they should offer a submission payment that at least covers some expenses and shows a willingness to recognize the work performed.

Phillip Barnhart’s last blog post..172 and one-half ways Google Form Spidering Is Kewl