42 spot-on reader comments to “My logo design process”

1. Renata, on September 6th, 2007 said:

   I’ve done logo design a few times now, and I’m still working out the kinks on the business end. What do you do if you show them two options and they hate both? Do you charge per hour or per project? And either way, if they don’t like the options but are on a deadline, do they still have to pay you for your time and energy?

   I had a client recently (unfortunately, not a very good one) for whom I ended up showing 10 different options, they didn’t like any, and it took me 2 months to get my paycheck. It was frustrating all around, and I’d like to figure out a way for this not to happen again :).

2. David Airey :: Graphic Designer, on September 6th, 2007 said:
   Hi Renata,

   With all new clients I ask for 50% of the project cost up-front, either by PayPal or bank transfer (if overseas).

   Can I ask how many options you originally sent the client you mentioned? Did you show all 10 at one time? I’ve had issues in the past where I’ve showed too many options, leaving the client unable to choose any!

   Do you receive any down-payment from clients? When I’ve been working with a client for a period of time I switch to a NET30 payment plan, whereby I invoice them at the end of each month for work I’ve undertaken. They then have 30 days to transfer the money into my bank account, and usually I receive the cost much sooner.

3. LaurenMarie - Creative Curio, on September 6th, 2007 said:

   I’m glad you linked back to some of your old articles. I really enjoyed those Five 54 logos, even if you didn’t! You do a TON of sketching for your logos! And I have a feeling those were only some of them. I’ve found that once I get all the obvious solutions to a design out of the way, that’s when the really good stuff comes up.

4. Laura, on September 6th, 2007 said:

   Actually, if you substitute the word “writing” for the design specific terms in your process, the writing process isn’t so very different…

5. David Hopkins, on September 6th, 2007 said:

   I’m impressed that you have a process for creating logos. As someone whoes main job is to stare at a text editor all day, I had never even considered that graphic design could benefit from planning.; programming being something planning is almost essential to. I did orignally get into web development and the other avenues it has led me down through graphic design, but I only do the odd design now. I never really was one for logo design. If you would like to have a look at the couple I have done: one is on the URL of my comment and the other is at http://www.semlabs.co.uk.

   Do you ever have problems with people not giving you any information to work with to come up with a logo? I find this is ALWAYS a problem in website development.

   I also agrre with your point that good logos ain’t cheap, but there’s no need to spend too much, like the BBC with their £4milllion pound couple of boxes.

   I am scheduald to do a logo for a chili sauce company in the future and i’m sure that this post will come in handy.

   PS - You should stick a Digg button on here for easy access.

6. David Airey :: Graphic Designer, on September 7th, 2007 said:
   Lauren,

   Glad you liked the Five 54 sketches. ;)

   I just couldn’t arrive at an idea I thought would work. Still, I’m sure I’ll pick it up again as a side-project when I get a chance. It hasn’t gone anywhere since back then.

   I agree with you that when the obvious solutions are noted, then you can really move things on. At least that’s how it usually works with me. Sometimes I’ll come up with the right idea at the beginning (not often though).

   Laura,

   Thanks for commenting and leaving your comparison. I think the general process ideas can be transferred to quite a few professions, and I’d be curious to know how other people’s specific methods differ from mine.

   David,

   You’d be surprised how much planning is involved in graphic design! I think that a lot of people see it more as an art than a craft, and don’t realise that when you study it, there are so many written rules. That’s not to say you need to stick to those rules. Once you know them, you can then break them.

   I do have issues with people not supplying as much info as I’d like. This lengthens the process, which is why I stress the importance of a detailed brief.

   I’m not familiar with how much the BBC spent on their identity, but I do think it’s worth pointing out that the complete budget isn’t spent on just the logo. Guidelines account for a huge part of the job, and how the logo appears through different projects. A complete brand package is different from a stand-alone logo design.

7. chase, on September 7th, 2007 said:

   I agree that sketching is indeed important since that is usually the basis for one to come up with certain ideas. I also agree that there is indeed a lot of planning in just creating a logo it is the same when we were creating logos for our film projects.

8. Lou, on September 7th, 2007 said:

   Thanks for covering this, it’s good to know the processes other people use.

9. Daivid Rudaitis, on September 7th, 2007 said:

   I have too agree that many great ideas are never first generation ideas. As a designer it takes me a little while to really burn through the ideas that are on the top of my head. I have come to realize that alot of those ideas have already been done and I am just redoing what I have seen before. I have a process for logos that is basically the same as yours.

10. Kukuh, on September 8th, 2007 said:

    I start to design a Blog Directory Site logo this week. The site ( Blogsrecord.com) is still in Beta version. Could you give me an idea what is the best theme for Blogsrecord logo?
    I come with smiling icon similiar to Friendster.com logo :p but Im not sure. If I use symbolic icon logo, I think it has to be simple, and welcoming for everyone.
    Sketching up for ideas would take longer time than giving the final touch to a logo in my opinion :)

11. David Airey :: Graphic Designer, on September 8th, 2007 said:
    Chase,

    Do you have any examples of your film project logos? I’d love to take a look.

    Lou,

    Thanks, and you’re very welcome.

    Daivid,

    Good to know your process is similar to mine. It’s all too easy to come up with ideas that have already been done, and I reckon the same thing goes for a lot in life, not just logo design.

    Kukuh,

    I’ve taken a look at blogsrecord.com. First thing you should sort out is the formatting - AdSense is covering up some of your content, which isn’t great. Also, I’d advise removing the FeedBurner chicklet until you attract more subscribers. I kept mine invisible until I reached 300.

    Are you saying that you don’t have time to sketch logo ideas? I’m not quite sure what you meant.

12. inspirationbit, on September 8th, 2007 said:

    This post is very helpful and useful not just for clients but for other designers as well.
    Question to you: you wrote that you submit only two quite similar logos to your clients, do you also show them your logo sketches or not?

13. PG, on September 9th, 2007 said:

    Very informative post, as is the case with any info about a freelancer’s creative and business process. It’s good reference.

    I can def see the advantage of just showing the client two prototypes for a logo. Too many choices would be hard for the client to narrow down, and with only two you, as the designer, can focus only on the two strongest designs. Not two strong designs and maybe an additional of three bad ones just so you can have five to show.

    So how many rounds of final revisions do you allow your client to have before you start to charge them for additional hours of work? Also, what’s the average amount of time you spend on a logo project from start to finish? Like, what’s the turnaround time you usually tell your client?

14. samsam, on September 9th, 2007 said:

    This post is great! It teaches me a lot of stuff about logo design. I’m like a student who wants to do design and your site always inspires me to design :)

15. David Airey :: Graphic Designer, on September 9th, 2007 said:
    Hi Vivien,

    I have shown my sketches before, but normally I don’t. One problem I’ve found is that clients don’t appreciate that a rough sketch can turn into a polished logo, and they might become a little disillusioned about the process. The majority of my sketches are ideas that I don’t think will work, and it’s never a good idea to show a client something you don’t like. Sod’s law says they’ll choose it.

    However, one more important issue, which I touch on above, is that too many options can make the choice impossible for a client. Narrowing the focus as much as possible is definitely the way forward in my opinion.

    PG,

    I normally go through one round of revisions following the initial prototypes, and that’s what I quote for following the design brief / logo questionnaire. If a client would like more rounds of revisions I can either tailor that into the quote or charge additional time by the hour.

    As for turnaround time. One week is usually the minimum allocation, and I’ve had some logo design projects last 6–8 weeks. Communicating across time zones often increases the project length. How about you? I’d love to know how you work.

    samsam,

    That’s fantastic that you find inspiration here! Thanks very much for letting me know.

16. Matt, on September 9th, 2007 said:

    I really enjoyed this one (and the other articles as well). I’m still studying to get my DTP/ Graphic Designer degree and this surely helps me figure out more what the process involves of getting from sketch to finished product.

    And thanks for the explanation on how to go about presenting your work to clients.

17. Renata, on September 10th, 2007 said:

    Hi David,

    I originally showed them three, which they didn’t like, so they gave me different directions, and I worked with those (and then lather, rinse, repeat, when they did this several times).

    I generally do ask for a down payment (half when we nail down the idea, and half upon completion). These people were on a deadline of a week, so there wasn’t really time to — which was my mistake, and I should have insisted on it anyway.

    *Sigh* Chalk it up to live and learn (”and then get Luvs!” Damn being an advertising major, everything I say turns into a commercial…)

    Renata

18. Kukuh, on September 11th, 2007 said:

    Hi David,
    first of all, I want to say thank you for your feedback. I really appriciate that.
    What I mean about sketching up a logo in my previous comment is that, I do always spend more times for that phase than any other stage of design. I can not start the refining part without feeling sure about the sketches. Some other designer perhaps would have done it better than me…

19. Marianne McDougall, on September 13th, 2007 said:

    Hi David,

    I use to freelance prior to working for G3 Creative as a senior designer
    and found it really difficult getting even happy clients to part with money.

    I am very glad to leave that scene behind and leave all the money
    chasing to someone else.

    Long live the monthly salary.

    Regards,

    Marianne

20. Firewalker, on September 15th, 2007 said:

    Hello David,

    Regarding colors, do you use RGB or CMYK? Or is it depends on where they want to put their logo?

    About your Logo Questionnaires, can I used it too? I’ll keep your site as reference.

    Hmm… the idea of making questionnaires might apply in any kind of design process, because I might got forgotten on what are the usual questions that I asked during customer meetings. Also, customer didn’t have to waste more time waiting questions from me.

    Great idea, David!

21. David Airey :: Graphic Designer, on September 15th, 2007 said:
    Matt,

    Best wishes on your course, and thanks for taking the time to comment.

    Renata,

    “Live and learn” is very apt, and I’ve learnt so much more than any course could teach since becoming self-employed. It’s been emotional. ;)

    Kukuh,

    You’re very welcome! You’re right not to start refining until you’re sure of the sketch. It’ll save you a lot of time further down the line.

    Marianne,

    For sure, there are pros and cons of self-employment in graphic design. Personally, I’d much rather be sourcing my own work, and having more responsibility. It’s not for everyone though. Thanks for dropping in.

    Didik,

    The colours used are entirely dependent on the medium. RGB for web, and CMYK for print. I’ll provide both.

    As for my questionnaires, by all means use the info. Obviously you’d have to create them yourself, or my logo would be plastered on them.

    Good luck.

22. Jade Colley, on October 8th, 2007 said:

    Hi David,

    Thank you for a very inertesting read. I am a self employed designer & would have to agree that the added responsibility & freedom is great (to be honest I wouldn’t have it any other way) but there are quite a few issues such as chasing payment & fussy (sorry confused clients) that need to be considered. I have found that it is imperative to have a design plan & this must be shown to your client so that they are aware of the processes involved to reach the final goal & of course you must be paid for the hours you put in before & after you complete the process. Some how most clients believe that your work should come with a big price tag saying “free”. I have come across your article as I still needed to refine my design process to combat the issue of a confused client. Hence the importance of a having design plan & sticking to it. At stage one, I make contact with my client & obtain an understanding of their business/product enabling me to complete my brief. I then email a quote requesting 50% payment then work can commence. After payment has been received my client then recieves 3 designs to choose/amend/refine. The final is then sent for approval & final balance is requested. Upon receipt of payment & then issue their logo kit. Its great when it goes according to plan, but there are times when you just want to scream. I have felt frustration towards the client (sitting alone at my desk in the very wee hours of the morning) only to realise that it is myself that I am frustrated with because I didn’t have a fail safe in place to prevent such issues arising.

    Thanks again David :)

23. David Airey :: Graphic Designer, on October 8th, 2007 said:
    Hi Jade,

    Your process seems quite similar to mine, asking for 50% up-front. That’s something I do with all new clients, although once I’ve been working with them for a while I can then revert to a NET30 payment term, whereby I invoice them at the end of each month, and they have 30 days to transfer the money to my account (bank or PayPal).

    I’m glad you found my logo design process interesting, and I hope everything goes well in your self-employement. Do you have a website I could check out?

24. Kim Roach, on October 30th, 2007 said:

    Hey David,

    Thanks for the excellent tips. This one is going in my bookmarks for future reference.

25. David Airey :: Graphic Designer, on November 1st, 2007 said:
    No problem, Kim. Thanks for reading the post.
26. Jason, on November 29th, 2007 said:

    Man, it must be nice to have clients smarter than the average rock. Here’s how it goes in our office:

    1) Design briefing / meeting: “I have no idea, just make it look cool. I don’t have time for this, I have a meeeting,” is about all the art direction we can expect from the average client.

    2) Steps 2-4 mentioned in the above article. Spend hours doing our best to provide our client with a contemporary, clean, effective no-nonsense logo.

    3) Meet with client for review. Listen in bewildered shock as Client tells you “None of these will work, here.. my 3-year-old drew this last night, isn’t it cute? Let’s just use this!” (Swear to god, we recently had a client go with a cartoon dog they pirated FROM A COLORING BOOK for their logo).

    4) Barely manage to resist the urge to strangle client, comforted by the fact that there’s a full bottle of gin at home.

    5) Rinse, repeat.

    Where do you find clients that actually listen? That’d be awesome.

27. Max, on December 28th, 2007 said:

    Hi David,
    Just to let you know that the 3 hyperlinks to your logo design questionnaire are not working, both on this page and the about me page.
    Thanks

28. David Airey, on December 28th, 2007 said:
    Thanks very much Max.

    I’ve been having some domain name issues of late, and greatly appreciate you keeping me right.

29. Andreea Bencsik van Schie, on February 12th, 2008 said:

    Hello David!

    I’m new around here, I have been a while ago as well, but I have lost the link… Now I am glad I found you again! It’s really nice that you talk about these issues! Anyways, I want to ask you if you write a contract everytime for every project and how do you deal with contracts via Internet? With the signatures and stuff…

    Thank you for replying! Maybe you already have a topic about this, I will check now… :)

    Andreea

30. David Airey, on February 13th, 2008 said:
    Hello Andreea,

    Welcome back! Regarding contracts, most of the time I don’t use them, because with all new clients I request 50% payment in advance. This ensures I don’t go out of pocket for the work I put in.

    Retainer clients are another matter, and I normally tend to get something in writing. There’s more time available for sending hard copies in these instances.

    Hope that helps. If there’s anything else you think I can help with just let me know.

31. i love white space, on February 22nd, 2008 said:

    Thanks! David~! It’s great to read about your working process. As a graphic design student, I am thankful for what you’ve provided here for graphic design learners.

    i love white space’s last blog post..Kashiwa Sato

32. angela, on March 4th, 2008 said:

    hello everyone.. i’m new here.. hi david.. good day to you… your post is very interesting.. i make my own logos too but never really had a process of doing so… i have bookmarked your site already.. thank you for your wonderful content…

    -angela

    angela’s last blog post..105.9 rx cebu

33. Steve, on March 11th, 2008 said:

    Hi David,

    Just to say what an excellent blog this is! There are some really interesting articles.

    In reading your process above I note that you use pantone references when proofing the initial concepts to the client.

    I wonder if you can tell me how you deal with the differences of how pantones are viewed on screen as opposed to when printed. No matter how I seem to calibrate my screens the pantone colour on the screen never matches the colour when printed or the colour shown in the pantone swatch book - so the colour the client proofs and agrees to is not the final colour on their business cards etc? We tend to work the other way and find a colour the client likes and then pantone reference from that? How do you overcome this?

    Also, when i am creating logos with pantones and then converting it to a RGB version for use online they always seem to come out looking a bit dull and I have to create a version with slightly different colours to look more like the final printed version of the logo?

    How do you overcome this?

34. David Airey, on March 16th, 2008 said:
    Angela, Steve,

    Thanks for the comments. Steve, regarding Pantones, the ideal situation is for your client to have (or see) a Pantone swatch booklet. You can never be sure of on-screen colours, because the chances to two monitors having the same calibration are very slim. A digital proof from a commercial printer is always recommended where print jobs are concerned.

35. Vall, on March 17th, 2008 said:

    Hello! :)

    Thank you for a great introduction to your logo creation process. I’m a beginner and just got my first logo designing job so I’m researching articles, tips and anything that can help or inspire me. Don’t know if you remember your first job of this kind or if it was so stressful as mine but I hope you know what I mean. :) Want to give the best I can.
    I also linked to your article in my recent blog post “5 great design articles on the web…”.

    Thanks a lot again and cheers!
    V

    Vall’s last blog post..5 great design articles on the web…

36. David Airey, on March 19th, 2008 said:
    Vall,

    I can remember my first logo design project, and I cringe when thinking of how amateur the ideas were. We all start somewhere though. ;)

37. Jesse Vlasveld, on March 27th, 2008 said:

    Great post David (I’m going trough half your blog these days), it will definitely be very helpful now, and in the future as I am self-studying logo design at the moment.

    Do you have any recommendations on things to read when just starting out with logo design?

38. David Airey, on March 27th, 2008 said:
    Hi Jesse,

    Glad you like my website. When starting out, I’d recommend reading books on typography, and there are some great ones listed here:

    Typography tips and advice for design students

39. Globulart Diseño, on April 16th, 2008 said:

    Hola David,

    I must say that I recently discovered your blog, and every day I find something new and interesting as I finish reading it all.
    This article about your work process is really interesting; we always stick to the process, and try to communicate it to our clients before even delivering them a quote, so they know how we work. Recently I’ve been planning to collect all the important facts about our work method and services and “pack” them into several documents to have the pertinent one delivered to new clients along with our quote, this article you wrote just reminded me of that, so thank you in some way!
    Speaking of what, precisely today we had a meeting with a potential new client who wants to renew his business’ website; the guy hadn’t even taken 5 minutes to stop and think what he wants for his new website, no idea about what contents he wants to show, a basic concept of hierarchy, nada. This one will be getting one of our new documents depicting our work process.

    I woud like to know, if I may… how did you create your pricing structure in the first place, or how did you come to the one you’re using these days? We recently did a small survey to check the prices of our local competitors, and it’s disheartening to see how little some people charge for their work. We are probably the most expensive design firm in our city! That scares me sometimes, but still there are clients who value quality over price (not too many, though). That said, we’re currently rethinking our prices, we’re going to do a wider market research, but any thoughts from a fellow professional designer would be nice (and perhaps more useful than any market research).

    Thanks for your time reading this and congratulations for this great blog. Regards from Spain,

    Angel Dominguez \ Globulart Diseño

    Globulart Diseño’s last blog post..Corporate identity project: COFFEEHOUSE

40. David Airey, on April 17th, 2008 said:
    Hello Angel,

    Thanks very much for the compliment.

    My pricing structure was initially set using an hourly rate that was fair for both the market, and my experience. I can’t offer a specific figure that would help, because obviously markets vary across different countries.

    What do you feel is suitable compensation for an hour of your time? How long on average would you spend on a particular design project? Answering those questions will be a good start for anyone setting an individual price.

41. Dominic Grenier, on May 8th, 2008 said:

    Hey, I love your website, I’m learning a lot here. And the design is really neat. I also like your logos, they are of quality. It’s great work! But I have to say the title images you use in this article feel kinda weird in comparison to the rest of your website.

    I felt I needed to say it because it actually caught so much of this attention that I set it as my homepage for later reading. And that reading I did was so long… I believe it took me 40 minutes to read.

    And keep blogging and designing; very inspiring!

42. Richard @ Peacock Carter, on May 8th, 2008 said:

    We’ve found it useful to tell the client we’ll only start on their corporate identity/logo project once we’ve got enough information to work on it, and make it very clear at the start that, after the agreed number of concepts have been created, additional hours/days will be charged at your hourly/daily rate - I’m happy to explain to the client that they could easily pay $10 for a template logo, but that they’ll probably end up hiring a professional designer eventually to correct the mess, or just start again!

    I’d definitely agree that most clients don’t appreciate the work that goes in to a logo: countless pencil-sketches, ideas that never make it as far as paper and those you start, get so far with and then restart with a slightly different angle. To some extent, you can help the client understand this by giving them your process, and explaining why the logo concepts will cost £x.

    Good post, thanks for sharing David!

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