Focus on reader comments #5
Image courtesy of Feuillu
It’s been a while since I put the focus back on you. Too long, in fact. So here’s another batch of your thought-provoking comments.
Lee Newham on, “The true cost of rebranding?”
“So what’s in a name anyway? If you recognize it’s the previous product, and it tastes the same as the previous product, then do you really care that the name has changed?
“Brand names get swallowed up and disappear. In the UK, Austin, Morris, Riley, Rover, Wolseley, Triumph, BSA, Woolworths, Timothy Whites, Lagonda, Vanden Plas. Only MG survived and that was gone for many years. How many people miss the passing of these names? I have nostalgic memories for some of these, but in reality, has it made may life worse not being surrounded by these names?
“I’d argue that design and graphics are more important than a name. A name is a bit like pasta. Often boring on it’s own, but add some sauce and it’s unique and appetising.”
Douglas Bonneville, of BonFX, on, “Agency vs freelancer — your take”
“Some marketing directors choose an agency because of a personal friendship, need to impress a CEO, need to score brownie points with a firm they might join someday, etc.
“Another big one is the need for corporate marketing departments to have to spend the budget they are allocated or they lose funding in the succeeding fiscal year. There are so many layers, but agencies serve the needs of corporate marketing departments because they make it possible to spend large amounts of money and keep the wheels greased. This isn’t bad per se, it’s just a simple fact of how things at the corporate level work.
“One project I worked on as an employee working with another design agency had a flash banner of seven rotating images that cost (I saw the invoice) close to 5 figures because it involved “project management”, several meetings (that we didn’t need), several rounds of changes (because the agency interactive department didn’t follow the 3 bullet points I laid out), etc. etc. But hey, that Flash banner fed a lot of people that week, and is the reason the hot dog vendors on the streets of NY can stay in business, parking valets can make a living off of tips, and restaurants booking business meetings can keep the single working mom’s in the kitchen employed. Strange how these things work. But I could have made that banner in half a day (with blog breaks) for piddley-cents on the dollar! Maybe I should stop thinking like that, and start thinking about how my more-inflated fees might just help working-class.”
Cat Wentworth, of NO!SPEC, on, “AIGA President Debbie Millman on spec work”
“Opting for the pro bono route may give you some experience, but it won’t put food on the table.
“This is another misconception, as a lot of non-profits do have a design budget. You just need to ask.
“Basically, it is up to each designer to decide just how much of their time will be donated – probono. I used to cut my charges in half, and the non-profits had to get donations to cover the rest.
“Also, designers are usually allowed to approach companies to donate money to cover a part (or all) of the design costs. This is how the real world works when you become a full-fledged designer, so might as well use a system that is already in place.”
Steve Morris, of WebMojo, on, “Do you follow logo design trends?”
“Design seems to be a regurgitation of ideas with your own spin. Is there any originality? And if you did produce something totally original, would it be accepted in the mainstream?”
FG, of ION FreshStart, on, “The design pricing formula”
“Another factor that effects pricing: fear.
“Being both a freelance designer and business planning consultant for almost eleven years, I’ve found that both the client and I, the service provider, are in vulnerable positions. The client wants a fair price (or a great deal) and wants the end-result to reflect their request or surpass their expectations. The service provider wants to receive a fair price (and get paid timely) and create something wonderful for the client. The client fears they may get ripped off; the service provider fears they may get the run around and never be compensated properly, aka ripped off.
“While these things are not actually discussed, I do believe this is an underlying tension that adversely impacts the pricing game. Each side can act defensively without even realizing it. Knowing a client’s budget, timeframe and expectations usually helps ease the pain of this awkward situation, but in my experience, when I’ve asked the client these things, they either don’t know or the answers change after project initiation. Even with a great deal of confidence and experience, every new client brings a new-found vulnerability.”
Jon Liebold, on, “Creativity for a moving world”
“Here in the US we are seeing the rise of people suing their employers because of the prevalence of this “always on, always connected” world society we have created companies are expecting their employees to be at their beck and call 24/7 and in some cases on an unpaid basis.
“While I do agree with the people suing their employers for being forced to work off the clock unpaid (which is a violation of US federal law), we are a lawsuit happy society. My favorite are the injury lawyers. Whenever I see one of those commercials I hear this in my head:
“I was recently involved in a slip and fall because in spite of the fact the sign was written in both English and Spanish, I could not comprehend what ‘Caution: Wet Floor’ meant and fell on my bottom. Because of my bruised ego and sore bottom I got $5,000,000 thanks to (insert blood-sucking lawyer name here)”
Thanks again to everyone who takes time to comment. Although I don’t reply to each and every one, it doesn’t mean I’m not appreciative. I am. Very much.
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15 appreciated comments on “Focus on reader comments #5”
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Third sector organisations certainly have (often substantial) design budgets set aside; in that respect, they’re often ahead of commercial organisations!
Hello All,
I once asked for a reader’s opinion on a web site and they picked some faults with it so I went in the huff!
But then a professional web designer said to take the criticism as positive and use it to improve the site which I did.
Best wishes
Graeme
I can’t decide if I am slightly disturbed or hugely gleeful at Douglas Bonneville’s comment. I had never really considered that some companies would only pay huge amounts of money for a little work :D
@ Andrew: Re-reading my own comment pulled out in the spotlight, I’m wincing just a bit. I could put a little context on that first paragraph:
“Some marketing directors choose an agency because of a personal friendship, need to impress a CEO, need to score brownie points with a firm they might join someday, etc.”
I must add that some marketing directors choose an agency because the agency is a perfect fit for the task. And some agencies cost millions because in the end, they bring that value back to their client’s organization many times over. So toss a red-blooded cheer for agencies in general. They keep freelancers in business!
My comment about the expensive Flash animation should also be qualified that it was part of a six-figure web redesign. So it was a very small number compared to the overall price tag. But, then again, the website redesign was for PSD files, for about 10 pages. The client paid for the agencies expertise in a particular field. “Expertise” is a relative term though.
In the end though, some agencies charge a lot simply because they are expensive :)
I agree with that, Richard. I used to take responsibility for the design budget of a non-profit, and they were very clear about the importance of design on their goals.
Andrew, there’s a personal experience that helped me resonate with what Douglas said. It was when one client in particular told me I wasn’t charging enough, and they’re still one of my biggest gigs. We didn’t go into details, except for me thanking them for their honesty, but I never really thought too much about the reasons until reading Douglas’ comment.
Thanks for the extra context, Douglas. I’ve been enjoying our chats in the comments of various posts lately. The prompting of a wince was the last thing on my mind.
@David → Yeah, it does make me think some more. I think I have the tendency to underestimate when pricing up jobs. I’m doing a cd cover at the moment, and it’s starting to take hours longer than expected.
I’ve learned a lot about my pricing structure via Billings for Mac. I setup timers for projects, and it shows me, damningly in some cases, exactly how long some projects take. In future, I may take the Douglas-approach and see where it leads :D I’m not talking about over-pricing, but rather rational pricing.
I think Douglas’s comment was so funny because I’ve worked for those agencies as well and, although I never actually got to see the bills, I can only imagine what they used to charge for a few hour’s work.
But pricing’s a funny thing. How many times have we given an estimate for a job and heard the client’s sigh of relief under his breath when he says, “OK, great!” and we’re thinking “I wonder how much more I should have asked for”?
Have to agree. I freelanced at an agency some time back where they wouldn’t really touch a project if the budget was under £25,000.
It was a very flat and open agency so I got to see quite a lot of invoices/quotes etc. Some figures would make your head spin. In particular one website that cost about £50k – £100k which I know I could have put together for less than half (the funny thing though is the size of a budget is inversely proportional to how difficult/fussy the client becomes).
The rate card then had some costs like, burn CD £150, burn DVD £200, email digital file £100. Designer day rate £800. Director day rate £1400. So when you have numbers like that it does start to add up even for a small flash banner.
It is true. But budgets of projects of freelancers or small agencies which consist of 3 people (web designer, programmer and imposer) are below, than big agencies which have many workers includes testers, SEO-workers, managers etc. And they calculate the price of projects, including depreciation charges, outage, pay-envelope of workers.
I think that is the reason why these large agencies wants so much money.
“I wonder how much more I should’ve asked for?” Now there’s a question anyone in self-employment will ask themselves at one time or another.
Ebi, do you ever think about going it alone? From the comments you’ve left it seems you have the experience.
But I am alone David! Maybe even too alone (*looks left right left again*. repeat) I’ve been freelancing for a while but mostly one of those freelancers that still had to go into the office as most london agencies would “prefer”. I once had to freelance in Mortlake, 2 hours from my flat in NW London! Everyday!
So I didn’t really have all the perks of being a “freelancer” asides having really loonggg holidays. And I always had long gigs, they’d call me in for one thing and keep me there for 2 others and then I’d have to run because I get so bored. Until I moved back to Nigeria in december. Now I work from my studio at the back of the house and am a “real” freelancer, more often these days I draw and paint because clients either can’t afford me (here) or take forever to feedback on comps!
Jon makes a great point about how we are lawsuit-happy as a society. While most lawsuits are serious and genuine, some of them are merely attempts at spiting a former employer, partner, spouse or even the Government.
Jesse:
Im just glad the commercials have toned down. I remember when I was watching a TV show and every commercial break had at least some sue-someone commercial for it be it the ambulance-chasers or the class-action-chasers.
Ah yes, Ebi, I know all too well about those “freelance opportunities” where you’re really just working for a recruitment agency, being farmed out to take care of the menial work in a large corporation. I tried a few of those when I started out, but couldn’t hack it. Not for me. If you ever put your paintings online, do let me know. It’d be great to have a look.
I’d like to address Steve Morris’s question about originality:
Well, what is design, anyway? We could discuss that for hours and get nowhere, but whatever your definition, I assume that everyone would agree that it is in some way tied to culture. By definition, culture is social in nature. It is defined by other people in the world and how you interact with them; circularly, it also comes to define those people and interactions. It’s the foundation of human existence: we take things that people have done, we perceive them however we do, and we send them back into the world for others to do the same.
Originality happens constantly. When we take these things that other people have done and we think about them, that’s originality right there. It’s basically a measure of the perceptions that happen at this moment, not so much of the output that it generates. It’s all a matter of relative perception. One can only perceive somebody else’s output as “original” so long as they experience it, and feel that it illustrates a perception that is somehow different from their own.